1963? Hydrodyne custome deluxe 1700 restoration thread

Discussion in 'Restoration Projects & Questions' started by BEFU-Brian, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. BEFU-Brian

    BEFU-Brian Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Columbia city, IN by Fort Wayne
    Boat Model and Year:
    86 Formula 272LS, 1963 17' Hydrodyne custom deluxe
    Yes, current elevations are an issue. Good thing is, they are all inside the upper radius of that surface and the transom of the lower hull extends up past that point, so they are purely cosmetic in construction. So I am going to remove that whole curved surface inside the where the drive mounts and redress it in. no problem there for an old fiberglass guy! Will also give me a chance to make sure the whole mounting surface is flat and then paint the transom area.

    The 100 drive has 360mm from the centerline to the cavitation plate. The 270 drive has 362mm to the cavitation plate, so only 2mm deeper. The 100 drive has a prop centerline 190mm down from the cavitation plate while the 270 drive has a centerline distance of 213mm. So the cavitation plate is OK, but the prop does sit 25mm deeper in the water. Will have to think about that one. The deeper prop will help it carry a load in the bow better, and I definitely qualify as a "load of something" in the bow. It will also help keep the boat on plane at lower speeds. The main thing it will hurt is top speed, which I am not really worried about. As mentioned, this old hull design will never keep up with newer designs, let alone the 4 banger.

    When I recut the transom, I will have to decide how much to raise the drive up. I know the motor cleared well enough, that if I want to I could raise it by 5 to 10mm. Not a bunch, but the cavitation plate will be higher and that wouldn't be bad. Probably just go 5mm higher and be done with it, transom assembly will get tight if I try to go up much more than that.

    The 270 drive has a total weight of 530 pounds, definitely heavier than the 100 drive at 465 pounds. So adding 65 pounds at the back of the boat, and already adding some weight to the boat with the choice in floor materials over the oak/balsa planks. But still lighter than one with water in the core! Still, not bad considering no R-zeppa unit, no 1" straight shaft props, no need to find an old boot to fit the 100 drive.
     
  2. jim

    jim Hydrodyne 18 Specialist

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    2,321
    Location:
    FL
    Boat Model and Year:
    77 Dyne 18 I/O converted to Outboard
    It probably uses a larger diameter prop. And the four cylinder version may have a different gear ratio. You could get into a situation where you can't get a prop with low enough pitch. You could probably run a smaller diameter prop if you can find one. I ran into a similar situation when trying to adapt a Mazda rotary to a mercury alpha. That inspired me to convert to outboard. Problem solved.
     
  3. BEFU-Brian

    BEFU-Brian Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Columbia city, IN by Fort Wayne
    Boat Model and Year:
    86 Formula 272LS, 1963 17' Hydrodyne custom deluxe
    Have not checked the gear ratio. The motor and drive were rebuilt and sold as a unit, so I am hoping and expecting it to be the correct ratio.
     
  4. jim

    jim Hydrodyne 18 Specialist

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    Location:
    FL
    Boat Model and Year:
    77 Dyne 18 I/O converted to Outboard
    I was hoping that was the case.
     
  5. BEFU-Brian

    BEFU-Brian Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Columbia city, IN by Fort Wayne
    Boat Model and Year:
    86 Formula 272LS, 1963 17' Hydrodyne custom deluxe
    So lots of camping time in and some work on the Formula 272 has not permitted much to be done on this, but I have gotten "some" done. For instance, I did get the chance to order the wrong carburetor gaskets! But I did order gasket material, so I am just going to cut my own, no problem.

    I have also finished up the glass work over the core on the bottom. It is pretty strong now. Not sure how strong as my only other comparison is a 1986 Formula 272 (aka: a tank!) and a 1987 Chris Craft I cut up. Both solid glass, both way heavier, neither with a core. So now I have to do the transom reinforcement and finish up under the bow before I can re-install the seat base. The seat base has already been finished, but the front "air pocket" was not up to my standard. With the hardware screwed into the deck from above, it has become weak over time and ripped out of most of the holes. So when things go back in, they will be through bolted. This also allows me to drill a hole, seal it with resin, then re-drill it and bolt on the hardware. Only thing is, I need to be able to have someone lay on the top of the air pocket without cracking the thin glass up there. I also need a method to attach the seat base to the remaining air pocket top and make them strong. I had figured on glassing a 2" wide strip of plywood to the front lip of the air pocket, so the seat base piece would match up and be glassed there. The plywood lending rigidity and and a surface to hold a resin slurry mixture.

    I have decided to add to this by extending that 1/2" piece of plywood forward 24" and attaching it to the underside of the air pocket. A center rib will tie that into the keel and the whole thing will be filled with foam. All wood pieces are of course resin sealed and I added a strip of glass where the two will meet, just incase one gets wet, it will shield the other. So the first picture is of the wood pieces in their places, the second shows where the lip is on the front of the seat base. This lip will hide the joint where I cut it. The last picture is the two resin sealed pieces after coating ready for installation.

    Once that is done, I need to do the transom and I will be ready to take it into the shop so we can lift it up. Stand it on the nose and pour foam into the nose. I do NOT like air pockets to keep a boat afloat, not good. Then flip it over and I am going to do something with the bottom so seal it. Looks like it has a lot of gelcoat damage from early water freeze damage. So I might be sanding with a belt sander / disc sander and then figuring out what coating I want to use. Was going to go with a bottom sealing paint, but since I am not worried about the bottom glossy smooth, I might just spray gelcoat on it and see how flat I can get it. Not sure, need to research that one.

    IMG_3646[1].jpg IMG_3647[1].jpg IMG_3649[1].jpg
     
  6. tj309

    tj309 Composite Specialist

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    LA (lower Alabama)
    Boat Model and Year:
    1972 18' Hydrodyne
    Ski Team:
    Former Hodag Water shows
    So you are going to make an air pocket in the bow and fill it with a foam substance? I have heard that foam can over time absorb water. As currently planned I have no air pockets and no foam on my project. Is this a mistake on my part? I have had many boats over the years without either and have never had a problem.
     
  7. jim

    jim Hydrodyne 18 Specialist

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    Location:
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    Boat Model and Year:
    77 Dyne 18 I/O converted to Outboard
    More than a few years ago a ski team weighed their new inboard which was loaded with "closed cell foam". It picked up 300 pounds the first year.

    jim
     
  8. jim

    jim Hydrodyne 18 Specialist

    Joined:
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    Location:
    FL
    Boat Model and Year:
    77 Dyne 18 I/O converted to Outboard
    fI think it is ok above the water line.

    jim
     
  9. BEFU-Brian

    BEFU-Brian Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Columbia city, IN by Fort Wayne
    Boat Model and Year:
    86 Formula 272LS, 1963 17' Hydrodyne custom deluxe
    I think this is the key! I know foam absorbs water if exposed. The front void in the hydrodyne is part of the positive flotation that will keep the boat from sinking. Air as flotation only works if it can't fill with water. Would hate to hit something in the water, which cracks the hull up front and lose the boat over that. Which is why I want to fill it with expanding foam. The main thing I have to worry about, is how to keep water from getting to the foam. Since it is in a closed compartment, I figure that is a pretty good start. It is also covered by the bow, which I plan on sealing fitting better than the factory, so water shouldn't drip through. But if it does, it falls on the fiberglass skin that is the top of the compartment, so that should seal that. The back of it will be sealed by the seat base, which will be glassed in all around. The last entry point is the bottom. A crack in the gel can expose the glass, which will absorb water over time and can transfer water to the foam.

    Since I only plan on trailering the boat, that should not be a problem. If left in the water, it is more of a concern. That is one reason I am now leaning towards flipping the boat and coating the bottom with new gelcoat instead of just painting it. If I leave it in for a weekend at someones house, I do not want water soaking into the bottom glass and eventually making it's way to the core or foam.

    Otherwise, the foam should never see water. That was never the case in my formula. That thing was a sponge with how all the wood was open in spots and all connected giving water a nice path.

    Oh, and all boats should have positive flotation. I think it is a coast guard rule if 17' or less. Boat can swamp, but should not go to the bottom. My kids will use this, so I will put the foam in and hope it is never needed.

    Brian
     
  10. Richard Motz

    Richard Motz New Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Boat Model and Year:
    4050 BU 1962
    Hi Brian I restored a 1962 with Volvo Io I live north of Huntington Indiana I will crank it up Tuesday for the first time in 3 yrs. I was at a auction and found some pictures 8x11 black and white from the 60"s that have never been published and in the same box was literature from Midwest industries corporation Harlan Indiana drop me an e-mail or call me if you need any help rpmotz3325@yahoo.com
     

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