Minimum Requirements?

Discussion in 'Dyna-Ski® Boats' started by PJP, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. PJP

    PJP

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I'm looking at putting together a simple basic outboard water ski boat and perhaps a water ready package. So I'm wondering about a few things. My first Hydrodyne a 17.6 XB had dual cable steering with the 150 Evinrude Motor. Is hydraulic steering really needed or should it be an option?

    What size of motor is really needed? A 90 will pull a bare footer on a 17.6 Open Bow Dyna-Ski. A 115 will pull two bare footers on a 17.6 Open Bow. A 130 gives a little higher top speed and a 150 will pull lots of folks and make it into the low to mid 50's with a water ski prop.

    How many gauges do you need? Tach, trim, fuel, pitot tube speedometer . . . . what else do you really need? GPS Speedometer?

    Is a plain two color interior good enough?

    No swim platforms, one swim platform or two?

    Trailers . . . . I like the custom Eagle Trailer with side guides and a bow stop but I can put a boat on a nice Yacht Club for less money. Eagle and Yacht Club are made by the same company.

    Do you want a windshield? They cost the same for a 20' or a 17.6. Should it be an option?

    I cannot build the old 18' style of boat for much less than a 17.6. There is about the same material in both boats. Offering a windshield could be very expensive. The Coast Guard horsepower guidelines and floatation requirements would not allow the same size motors now as folks have put on them in the past. The insurance industry is also a factor.

    So give me some realistic guidelines and I'll develop a product for the entry level or budget buyers.
     

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  2. DanielC

    DanielC Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    118
    Location:
    West Linn, Oregon
    Boat Model and Year:
    1987 Hydrodyne
    Ski Team:
    PDX Water Spectacula
    I will bite on this.
    My first boat was a 15' 10" 1971 Tahiti, made by Bayliner. It was a deep "V" hull, and had a 1970 135 Mercury outboard on it.
    No windshield, no swim steps, single color interior, single cable push-pull steering. Four seats, back to back, two face forward, two face back. Just used a pitot tube speedometer.
    Necessary gauges, fuel level, Speedometer, Tachometer.
    Are not most gauges needed for motor monitoring included with the motor, now?

    Maybe you could draw up a proposal for a "Base" boat. Stripped down. Then add additional costs for options.
     
  3. kcskier

    kcskier Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
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    Boat Model and Year:
    none
    Ski Team:
    waterhawks
    Hyrdolic stearing is a MUST! regardless of motor size.
     
  4. DanielC

    DanielC Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
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    Location:
    West Linn, Oregon
    Boat Model and Year:
    1987 Hydrodyne
    Ski Team:
    PDX Water Spectacula
    I could be wrong on this, but maybe I am not. This opinion is based on my first boat, a 1970 16 foot Tahiti, with a 135 Mercury outboard. Through trial and error, I figured out what is a good place to run the motor up and down trim was, at different speeds, and loads. Once I knew that, I was then able to adjust the (rudder) trim tab on the motor to neutral.
    Once that was done, I could trim the motor up to no pull right or left, and actually let go of the steering wheel, and the boat would continue in a straight line. I could make the boat turn right or left, without touching the steering wheel, by adjusting the trim up or down. I made sure the cable ran as straight as possible, no kinks, and greased it every year, and whenever when it got tight. I also disassembled the parts I could reach, and kept them clean and well greased. The boat had light steering. Of course, I did have to hold the wheel when the motor was trimmed extreme up or down, but most ot the time the wheel was "light" and easy to turn.
    I understand that hydraulic steering is required with a twin, or triple rig, but we are talking about a "base" entry level single engine outboard boat that will pull maybe two skiers at the most.
    I believe a cable steering system on this boat will do just fine. I would like to believe that in 30 or 40 years, we have not forgotten how to design, and set up a boat steering system.
     
  5. dynebob1

    dynebob1 Boat of the Month

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
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    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, Illinois
    Boat Model and Year:
    1998 18 OB RUA- 250XS.and 1997 Twin Rig /225 optis
    At 150 H.P. you are at the border line of what the boat riggers say to use a single cable set up on. Anything above 150 they recomend dual cable or the hydraulic. I used the quick ratio hydraulic on my Mercury 250XS, and can turn that engine with one finger with the power on.

    Bob
     
  6. PJP

    PJP

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    It is true that the steering manufacturers have speed and horsepower guidelines for steering requirements. Speed is more of a concern than horsepower with single motored boats. 50 mph is the magic speed. The Coast Guard does not have steering guidelines. The old MasterCraft outboards did not have hydraulic steering with the standard 200 motor! My neighbor has a 1989 that he just updated with hydraulic steering and an E-Tec 200 HO motor. The added weight of the motor is giving him some problems. A 17.6 with a 150 can be made to reach the 50 mph speed. A 115 or 130 on a 17.6 Dyna-Ski will not get past mid 40's on a GPS Speedometer unless it is on the trailer. So I'm thinking I will offer hydraulic steering as an option to help reduce the entry level pricing with a 90. 115 or 130 motor.

    On the Dyna-Ski 17.6 Boat there is only a little bow steer with the motor trimmed all the way down at speed. Less bow steer without transom wedges. A slight bump up of the motor trim reduces the bow steer or pull to one side.

    What about the rest of the boat?

    Most major outboard motor brands do not include gauges, controls, props, wiring, oil tanks or anything else. All these things add up and there is labor cost to install them also.

    A GPS Speedometer adds to the cost vs a pitot tube pick up speedometer.

    A custom Eagle Trailer with bow stops and vertical side guides cost more than a bolt together trailer.

    Swim platforms, ladders, three color interiors and other nice things all add cost to the final cost of the product.

    What about a windshield?

    So tell me what you think the rest of the base outboard ski boat should have standard?

    Thanks!
     
  7. 2MERCS

    2MERCS Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
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    779
    Location:
    Eastvale, Ca
    Boat Model and Year:
    1973 Hydrodyne 18 w/Twin 1150 Mercs
    I wanted to say that this is a good thread. This will allow people to see what the base cost of an outboard ski boat will cost.

    Daniel
     
  8. walk_on_water

    walk_on_water Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto Canada
    Boat Model and Year:
    17.6ft dyna-ski 2006
    Ski Team:
    club de skinautique
    Have you tryed turning a closed bow 17.6 dyna-ski into a "family boat" without a windsheild? I ask because im curious to see how it would look. also i think that 2 color interior is perfect, for a gauges a GPS is 100% NOT needed. The basic things you need to know from your gagues are speed and RPM, and fuel level. A trim gauge is not needed because with an easy turn of your head you can see how high the motor is, and once you get used to the motor enough you can listen and count to know where it is. All the other gagues are really nice to have because of all the other informantion they give you, but like you said PJP they do cost more money and the labour to put them in also costs $.

    To lower the cost of the whole package I would definatly go with the cheaper trailer. This allows people to choose what they want and where they want to save money.

    Walk_on_water
     
  9. walk_on_water

    walk_on_water Established Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto Canada
    Boat Model and Year:
    17.6ft dyna-ski 2006
    Ski Team:
    club de skinautique
    In regards to ladders and swim platforms i think they are not needed. The dyna-ski boat is low enough that you can climb into the boat. I think even 1 swim platform would be more than enough for an entery level boat.

    Walk_on_water
     
  10. PJP

    PJP

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The closed bow 17.6 has not been a big mover for several years. The introduction of the 17.6 Open Bow may have contributed to the sales drop off. The closed bow 17.6 styling is very dated. I'm also down to one closed bow windshield. Windshields are not cheap and the minimum order of a dozen windshields could last a lifetime. There isn't much difference in the cost of building a closed bow or an open bow 17.6 boat except for the interior pieces. If we greatly simplify the interior that reduces the cost a whole bunch. The 20' Open Bow, 17.6 Open Bow and the 20' Closed Bow all can use the same windshield. Making a new 17.6 closed bow deck mold so the same windshield would work is possible but also expensive.

    Bigger motors cost more to purchase and operate so going with a 90 or 115 would reduce the price of the boat a whole bunch. A 17.6 Open Bow Dyna-Ski boat will pull a footer with a 90 hp E-Tec. The 115 will pull two bare footers and there were three adults and one child in the boat. Skiers weigh 185 (backwards guy) and 220 (forward guy).

    If the water ready price is less than $20 K with a 115 E-Tec Motor on a trailer how does that sound? Using a 90 would drop the price about $1,000.00.

    Your thoughts?
     

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