I am just curious as to what motors people are running, and what motors people are having problems with. Our ski team since 1989 has ran in this order: Evinrude, Yamaha, Mariner, Mercury. All of them seemed to work very well, except a few years ago we tried a pair of Merc 225 EFI's. I beleive these motors are made for bass boats. If you were not running wide open they would foul out a set of plugs in about 2-4 hours.
I would think that any of the current motors with computer controls would compensate for thier use, and adjust fuel, and oil ratio automatically. On an older, (and dumber) motor, changing spark plug heat range might help the fouling problem.
As you probably know, we run Evinrudes, all E-Tecs except for 150 DI's on our triple due to lack of availability for 150 E-tecs last spring. Our team: 768 combined engine ours this year across all engines, no shop time, no fouled plugs. We run the XD-100 oil which is formulated for E-Tecs. We had a bad oil pump on one motor right out of the box that gave false no oil horns, but that was replaced and never a problem again. I know there were some issues with 150 and 175 E-Tecs this year because they had a throttle cam that did not allow for speed holding in the ultra important 2000-3000 rpm range. With that update and a map update in the ECU it is apprently solved. I can't say enough how happy we were with the engines this year. Our fuel bill stayed the same despite the higher gas prices over last year. We went from yamaha hpdi's and four strokes to the Evinrudes. Biggest advantage is apparently the idle fuel economy of the E-Tecs. You can run a 250 E-tec at idle for 5 hours on one gallon of fuel. We have also run mercs and yamahas. The Yamaha hpdi's tend to foul plugs (after 40 hours or so)because they shut down 2 cylinders in neutral. Not a great setup for show ski teams, but very strong and durable engines. The plug fouling seemed to become less and less frequent the longer you used the motors. However, in the 5 years we ran Yammies, we had zero down time other than one bad gearcase bearing on a 150 that was brand new, replaced under warranty. Ran mercs back in 96-98, no problems with them and we had some of the first small block optimax motors, but those have generally been good motors. As to your plug fouling, the 225's are bass motors, but you could have had a TPS adjustment making them run rich, and depending on the year, they went to a computer controlled oil injection setup which could have caused fouled plugs as well. We ran triple 150 4 stroke Yammies on our triple, great running motors but you really had to spool them up to get max power when pulling big stuff off the dock. The power came on at much higher rpm's than the 2 strokes. My engine of choice is any 3.3L E-Tec, magnum gearcase with 1.85:1 ratio, yamaha or new brp control with 15 or 17 pitch Rebel prop.
It is interesting to see the different points of view between a club driver and a family driver. The club driver can't get enough horsepower because they are pulling big acts. I run a 95 Johnson "faststrike" 150 which is their carbureted 60 degree "eagle" motor. It is a very light V-6 at 470. This along with a wedge and an uncupped 17 prop gets the boat on plane at 10mph and makes a pretty level ride at 16 as you can see in the picture at the top of the home page. That combination seems to have optimised the swivel ski wake. It has never fouled a plug, even with all the slow running I do, and it is quiet enough to carry on a normal conversation in the boat. I have had several drivers (at the individual nationals) ask me how I get descent throttle accuracy and response at the low speeds. I am typically turning about 2700 at 16. I think that issue has turned off a lot of prospective outboard buyers and cause them to run inboards for the slow stuff. It takes a little tinkering, but the outboard throttle response can be made to be superior to a stock inboard. Many people out there just want to buy a boat and run it, so the inboard is easy. When it comes to the swivel ski individual tournament the inboard makes a larger turn around wake. Since the tourneys are typically held in rivers that turn around wake on the upstream side will drift down into the show course as the act progresses and cause the skier problems. Also at sites like Janesville there is a wake reflection problem on the north end which is worse as the wake gets bigger. My advice for the 18 is to run the lightest motor that has enough power to suit your needs. The boat will handle better. If you look at the thread titled "the ultimate 200" you will see why I am not impressed with any of the new motors. They are really heavy. The new "eagle" 200 e-tec is the lightest 200, and so far, I have heard good reports on it. jim
There is no question that the carb 60 degree Eagles may be the finest water-ski engine made. Lightweight, powerful, quiet and responsive. That motor was the basis for the first triple rigs because it is less than 18" wide and 3 of them fit readily on the back of a dyne. I am only speaking from my experience mostly with 20 footers when I chose a 3.3L E-Tec. The 3.3's have a ton of torque which helps to hold speed on a 20 footer extremely well. The small blocks on the 20's have a tendency to fall off plane without a lot of throttle work in a single engine application. An 18 is no doubt a different story. I was told by Evinrude not to bother with a small block 200 E-tec for waterskiing. Stick to the 175 because the porting is far better in the midrange is what I was told. It would be interesting if you would try a high altitude gearcase on your 150, they are 2.25:1. I'm thinking of experimenting with one next season on a 115 E-Tec for pulling things like swivel and our jr. skiers.
That would be an interesting experiment. Mine is really fine tuned now with my own custom modified throttle cam and other mods. Swvski1's 05 carb Merc 75 has a high ratio gear case like that and did well right out of the box with a stock 17. The new Merc built in throttle surprised me with very little play and smooth action. The motor is not touchy at all because of it's small size and it only weighs 303. She has a 75HP limit on their lake. I think you will like the 115 on an 18. I think it will surprise you. The 75 surprised me. Thanks for the input on the e-tec 200. jim
I had a Mercury Optimax 150 on the back of an 18 when I had mine. I used it for all types of skiing. With it coupled to a High Five stainless prop it ran strong. I thought it had plaenty of power for those barefoot starts, one night I brought it to the SKimmer's site, and we used it that night in the show. We pulled a line of 5 conventionals, a single 3 tier pre-fab, and numerous barefoot acts. All with no problem. The only thing it did not successfully pull was a ballet line of like 12 girls (Which is probably more like 15, if you know what I mean). I laughed when I saw them walking out for the dance, I said to the spotter "this should be interesting". Interesting it was, the nose when right in the air and bucked. I think we left the pier with like only 8 girls. I told the spotter, "what does the show director think this is, a twin rig?". Greg
Hi All This site is gold! Nowhere else can I find a bunch of outboard ski boat people that pull multiple skiers!!! My last motor was a Yamaha TRP 150 (duoprop) which weighed about 190kg and just pulled six 90kg men on standard figreglass doubles out of the water with 21, 23 or 25 inch props on the standard dual prop 2:1 ratio gearbox. Lack of traction stopped me pulling more with the 21" props. I'm looking at getting an E-TEC. I was leaning towards the 200 small block because it is physically smaller to see around and substantially lighter. I want to be able to pull the same kinds of loads using a 19" high 5 prop. Since the motor has a taller gearbox, this is equivelent to running a 21 on my old motor. I am very interested in speed holding ability at all speeds but also value quietness and fuel economy. I'd love to have a really short prop for pulling huge loads but I wouldn't normally run a 17 or less. I was really interested to read the comment about porting on a 200 small block. Has anybody got first hand experience with the small block? Would I be happy with the big block? Also, can the E-TECs run a standard tacho (do they have a normal tacho output?). I intend to use I command gauges but I also run perfect pass and need a standard tacho feed for it as well. Hope I can adapt PP to fit inside the cowl and run an Evinrude..... Yes, I managed OK on the Yammie. Any comments appreciated. Thank you Greg
Greg, In Yamaha circles it is well known that the 150 TRP was really a 200, it had 200 heads and was ported the same as the 200, so they were clearly cheating a bit. I've been told not to bother with the 200 small block for skiing. Either get a 175 or go big block as the 200 small block motor was designed for top end on lightweight boats such as an Allison, Hydrostream etc. The only penalty you will have with a big block is weight potentially as it will be about 100 lbs more than your TRP. As of now I would have to recommend you go with a 200 HO or a 225 standard, they'll basically be the same price, their speed holding is excellent. I just tried my 225 HO out last night and even with a 19 rebel the hole shot was excellent and I held about 12 for my 7 yr old daughter no problem. The new BRP flush mount control is light years better than the old one. You should likely be able to tap into the tach feed on the engine. When you use I-Command gauges there is no send wire up front as it is all networked with plugs. My boat is probably larger than yours, I'm sure you could pull that many with a 200 big block, and probably with a 175, but you might have to back down to a 17 pitch with the 175. Overall the big blocks have been out since late 2004 and are well proven, the small blocks began shipping about 11 months ago and they are still tweaking them with software upgrades etc so my recommendation would be big block right at the moment, by fall (after two full seasons on the market) I'd be comfortable with the 175 or 200 small block.
Thanks Must Ski I took a lot of note about the porting of the 200 small block as this was the key to the carb TRP. It had high compression heads but the porting of a 150. This gave it much better lower down performance than the 200 engines but limited the top end a little. From what I can gather (hydrotech etc), the TRP was good for a bit over 175hp. It looks like I will have to lean towards a big block. That is a shame as I didn't want the extra weight or the bigger motor to look around. Is there any difference between a 200HO and a standard 225? I hear they are the same powerhead, same powerhead horsepower but maybe different gearcase? Do these motors have any vibration, rought spots, don't like certain RPM or anything like that?
